Journal - Day 15   04/29/2003  

Day 15 - Chapter 5 - The Reformation - Continued

Audio:

none

Journals:

Worked exclusively on the Summary of United Nations Agreements on Human Rights which is found detailed in Journal - Day 12. It was very good discussions with one lad making it difficult because he just wanted to be at odds with everyone. (When you CHOOSE your position in advance, logic is of little help.)

Questions Asked:

None

Discussions:

Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

Among the rights of individuals are: ......

• the right to be recognized as a person before the law [Article 16 - Everyone shall have the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.]
  • Yes-6 No-0
  • As opposed to what?
    • We are all seen the same by God.
  • The students still find problem with how the real world works compared to these
• the right to privacy and protection of that privacy by law [Article 17.1 - No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honor and reputation.]
  [Article 17.2 - Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.]
  • Yes-6 No-0
  • How much privacy?
  • What do you think about a National ID?
    • The students changed their minds as I tried to get them to say WHY it was inalienable because they were describing it like it was a "Want". They presumed because all they could think of was wants, it must be a want.
  • What is Slander?
    • Slander is a lie.
    • What if you tell someone they are ugly? Is that slander?
  • Are there any logical limits we might wish to put on our privacy?
  • Presuming we do have our privacy, what sort of penalties make sense for violating our privacy?
• freedom of thought, conscience, and religion [Article 18.1 - Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.]
  • Yes-6 No-0
  • So what is it with the guilt and manipulation?
    • Political Correctness which makes some thoughts, attitudes a NO NO!
    • It is wrong to do so.
  • If your subdivision has an ordinance against animals and your religion says you must offer up one live goat a week, who wins?
  • If your subdivision says you can't have a flag pole more than x' feet from the road and more than x' tall and you are so patriotic you feel compelled to express your sentiment with a US flag on flagpole in your yard, who wins?
  • There is one argument about buying a home in a subdivision or in a town which have ordinances you disagree with. However, if after you move in, a majority get together and pass an ordinance which you are a conscientious objector to. Who wins?
• freedom of opinion and expression [Article 19.2 - Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.]
  • Yes-6 No-0
  • Is Civil Disobedience possible?
    • One way of reading this is to suggest if you object to a law, you may express you objection any way you choose. Civil Disobedience is to object with a law, break it, get tried and accept the conviction so as to make your point.
      • Well, if the former translation were right, you would be exercising a constitutional right, not breaking a law?
• freedom of assembly and association [Article 21 - The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order (order public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others]
  [Article 22 - Everyone shall have the right to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
  No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those which are prescribed by law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order (order public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on members of the armed forces and of the police in their exercise of this right.
  Nothing in this article shall authorize States Parties to the International Labor Organization Convention of 1948 concerning Freedom of Association and Protection of the Right to Organize to take legislative measures which would prejudice, or to apply the law in such a manner as to prejudice, the guarantees provided for in that Convention. ]
  • Yes-4 No-2
  • Cults, Militia, KKK, Nazi, Pro and Anti various groups?
    • Can there be certain groups which should not be allowed to Associate?
  • Natural to wish to be with like minded people.
  • We have a history of assemblies of people gathering for a purpose who have done things.
    • What is the smallest assembly?
      • Self.
    • What is the next smallest assembly?
      • Family.
    • What is the next smallest assembly?
      • Clan.
    • What is the next smallest assembly?
      • Tribe.
    • Is man meant to live alone? No? He is meant to live "assembled".

Assignments:

None

Plan for Next Week:

1. We'll continue with the Rights discussions. We may never make it back to Chapter 5 before the semester ends.....

Day 15 - Chapter 5 - The Reformation - Continued