Journal - Day 14 04/22/2003 
Audio:
none
Journals:
Worked exclusively on the Summary of United Nations Agreements on Human Rights which is found detailed in Journal - Day 12. It was very good discussions with one lad making it difficult because he just wanted to be at odds with everyone. (When you CHOOSE your position in advance, logic is of little help.)
Questions Asked:
None
Discussions:
Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
This covenant details the basic civil and political rights of individuals and nations. Among the rights of nations are:
- the right to self determination
- Vote Yes-6 No-0
- the right to own, trade, and dispose of their property freely, and not be deprived of their means of subsistence
- Vote Yes-6 No-0
- BUT: Can government restrict inalienable rights?
- Vote Yes-6 No-0
- What if John grew marijuana on his farm and it was his only means of making a living?
- Would we be infringing upon his inalienable rights to outlaw marijuana, thus making it impossible for John to earn a living?
- BUT: If your family has been producing Whiskey for 100 years and this is your only means of subsistence and suddenly you find yourself in a dry county....
- Well, you're out of business. You had a legal way of making a living, but you do not now.
- Does the government, which is the administrative articulation of what society at large wants, presumably, now owe you a living?
- Should the government pay you the same amount of $ you got for making whiskey previously, now for nothing?
- Should the government help you get another job?
- If you don't want to get another job, where does this leave us?
Among the rights of individuals are:
- the right to legal recourse when their rights have been violated, even if the violator was acting in an official capacity
- Vote Yes-2 No-4
- the right to life
- Vote Yes-5 No-1
- Death Penalty Penalty legal?
- Vote?
- The No changed their mind because the Bible said so.
- the right to liberty and freedom of movement
- Vote Yes-6 No-0
- the right to equality before the law
- Vote Yes-5 No-1
- Bias is natural. Seeing people the same is unnatural. How can being equal be an inalienable right?
- If a right is taken away or oppressed so often we come to think naturally expect it to be so, does this mean there is no right?
- The reading of this question has been in error. The argument and answers read as if it reads "the right to equality before man". It does not. It refers to laws in the books. It does not refer to how one person may get better treatment before one jury and another worse treatment - because of bias.
- the right to presumption of innocence till proven guilty
- Vote Yes-3 No-3
- Solomon judged 2 ladies with 2 babies. Guilt or Innocent presumed? Or perhaps it was a Child Custody case?
- Did Greek / Romans came up with Innocent until guilty?
- It is a good idea to be innocent, but isn't this a product of our legal system starting with the Magma Carta in England?
- In Old Testament, were the accused guilty or Innocent presumed?
- How about drinking alkaline material and hoping God intervenes to save you in order to prove your innocence?
- Presumed guilty because it requited divine intervention to prove innocence.
- the right to appeal a conviction
- Is it unending?
- Vote Yes-3 No-3
- Moses only judge
- Jethro gave us first judiciary system?
- Safe cities in Old Testament.
- Is it inalienable if the first people didn't have a use for appeals?
- Is it inalienable or natural for people to want to exhaust all avenues available to them to prove themselves innocent.
- If one steals a $50 train from another person. They are convicted. They appeal. It cost $100,000 for 1st case. It cost $1,000,000 next case. It cost $2.000,000 next case. Is there a limit to how much money and time we should spend on an appeal process? 2.5M for a $50 train set?
Assignments:
None
Plan for Next Week:
Day 14 - Chapter 5 - The Reformation - Continued